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Post by Ron Pittman on Feb 12, 2009 8:14:05 GMT -5
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Post by slowroll on Apr 7, 2009 10:57:39 GMT -5
Hey Ron, I need your help on something. I've been going back and forth on what division to play. I'm rated Int, but on my good days I can finish top 10 in Advanced. I have no chance to win Advanced but anything below a top 3 finish in Int would be a bad day for me.
Post subject: What level to play?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm pretty sure there are only about 10 of us who even check this forum, but I'll ask this anyway. Why are people called sandbaggers here when their rated to play a level down from where everyone tells them they should be playing? My friend Rob Collier could play Rec 890, but hes being pushed to play advanced?!? I've been told, this is a southern thing. That the guys in the south always get on somebody the first time they do good. But over the course of a four round tournament, a players true skill level comes out. Anyone can get hot for a round. Heck, even I once shot a 997 5 down round at Smyrna at states last year and I didn't even win the event. Does that mean I should be squaring off with guys like Ron and Jacky all the time? I don't think so. I had this discussion a few moments ago and got the following response from a reputable source: slowRoll said: Two things.
First, does anyone else think its really shady that 3 of the top 5 players in Intermediate had no rating at all including the guy who won. This supposedly was their first ever PDGA event, really? I believe the top 10 of Rec had a couple like this as well. Doesn't this seem strange to anyone? This was my first ever out-of-state tournament, and as a 926 player I averaged about a 920 for the event. Seems about right since I just played average golf. Does this sort of thing happen all the time in tournament play? Normally you have to play about 20 ratings points above the ratings cap to win in Intermediate, Recreational or Novice at a tournament where Intermediates play Intermediate, recreationals play recreational and novices play novice. Where you are from, Intermediates play Advanced, Recreationals play Intermediate and TDs don't offer Novice. Take, for example, the Crosstown Open VI from a couple of weeks ago. 20 players in Advanced. 2 of them were advanced. The rest were intermediates and below. 18 players in Intermediate. 3 of them were intermediate. The rest were Rec and below. When your expectations are based on everyone playing up a division, it looks like bagging when anyone plays in the division indicated by their skill level. The unrated guy who won Intermediate at Bowling Green beat a 913 rated player by one throw and a 928 rated player by 2 throws. He averaged 945 golf, 10 points above the cap. Doesn't look like bagging to me._________________ Thats how I roll.
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Post by slowroll on Apr 7, 2009 11:04:13 GMT -5
Oh, and I do want to pre-register to make sure I get in, but didn't know what division to put in the envelope.
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Post by Ron Pittman on Apr 7, 2009 20:16:11 GMT -5
Craig, Great set of questions about division and rating.
First of all, when PDGA massaged the division names/ratings breaks/ etc the last time - hmmm --- 2007, I think----- they made some nice changes IMO.
We now have 4 divisions -- each with a different level of skills. Advanced starts at 935+, Intermediate from 900-934 (the tightest division, but also often the largest), Recreational from 850-899, and Novice at <849.
While many tourneys do not offer Novice - they could do so and never hurt the tournament.
With the new divisions - there is very little chance for a rated PDGA member to sandbag. Your rating history will choose your division rather correctly.
Oh, and BTW, a non-pdga member has zero rights. The TD can assign the division based on local play, other tournaments, etc. Anyone that dominates a division in-- for example -- intermediate at an area tournament can be placed in advanced division at the whim of the next tournament TD. They get no vote.
Now, the real question is --- how accurate are the ratings? Easy answer -- It is just math. If you get enough consistent data, then it will be accurate.
That said, it is obvious there will be times when the PDGA rating does not represent an am player's current skill level. * When they play very few tournaments, the round data is skewed. * When they are improving faster than the ratings updates. * When they first get a rating in the novice or rec division -- the numbers can be based on a small number of round propagators. Not always a bad thing, just increases the chance for some goofy numbers.
Once again, it is just math. Even for a regular tournament player--- all the rating can do is show what typical level to expect. Whether you call it seed, handicap, average, or rating - it is all the same, just a numerical history.
So, if you are bowling and don't bowl your average, you lose. If you beat your average, you win. Nobody ever plays at exactly their average. Same with pdga ratings and scores.
CAN you play at a division above your rating. Sure. One can always move up. Some should. Especially if their rating is based on an ancient history or your improvement is waaay beyond the ratings updates. Sometimes it depends on the tournament.
Craig, your rating is real new. You can play Int at any tournament you choose. And even if you kicked butt -- No one has the right to call that bagging. If you play your rated division and do well --- well gee--- that's what we are supposed to do. The divisions are made for competition. That is a good thing.
Part of the reason some of the local guys tend to play up to Advanced is ahem, errrr, uummm ... pride. When the new division breaks came about, they got left behind. They used to be called "Advanced" , but now they are truly an "Intermediate". They (like me) hate the name. It is a shame when you have been playing for 20 years and your division is named Intermediate or worse yet --- Recreational!!!
Bottom line. Try to determine where you will fit the best. If you want to play with the better skilled players and you feel you can compete, then play Advanced. As for me, I sorta' like being on the leader card every once in a while. I stay in Intermediate where I belong. ;D
You can always call if you need me.
three seven seven - two three three seven
Ron
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Post by Ron Pittman on Apr 7, 2009 21:03:45 GMT -5
Just wanted to make sure you got a personal invitation to come see us for our 2nd Annual Crockett Charity Classic. On behalf of the Williamson County Disc Golf Club, we would love to have you join us on the 25th. Highlights · This is a fundraiser for the Down Syndrome Association of Middle Tennessee. We raised over $1,200 last year. Sure would be nice to beat that. · Consider sponsoring a hole for $30. It’s for their camp. · Lunch is on us. Box lunch and drinks for all. · Several of our friends from DSAMT will join us for lunch and then a short mini tournament during the break. · The first 50 Pre-Registered Ams will get a players pak. We think you will like it. PickYourOwnChampDisc and more. Aw, shoot. Let’s make it the first 60!! · The carpet tees are working rather decent. But, we really hope you don’t like them too much, because we want to hit you up for the Concrete Tee Fund every chance we get. · Rumors are floating about concerning two new par 4 placements. Hmmm… · Williamson County Parks and Rec are our sponsors. Check in, lunch, and awards will be held in the awesome indoor soccer arena. We truly encourage you to pre-register. Field is capped at 90 players. Oh, and we really want to give away the players paks, but only if you pre-reg. www.pdgasignup.com/Qstore/Qstore.cgi?CMD=011&PROD=1234500314See you soon, Ron
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Post by kidmills on Apr 8, 2009 0:03:27 GMT -5
i'm in....just pre-reg......as for you craig,you are advanced,maybe at a big tournament go int,but for this one ADV if not i'll call you a bagger,just kidding play what you think you should play,you can't play in the somewhat old division(adv master)
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Post by slowroll on Apr 8, 2009 8:31:26 GMT -5
I just signed up. "as for you craig,you are advanced" I thought so too Mark until I got up there in BG and couldn't even make top 20 in Int. I only made 11 birdies all weekend, I finished as high as I did because I'm getting better at not blowing up on wide open holes.The only 5 I made all weekend was on a par 4 700'+ hole. I may not get a 2 very often, but I can almost always get my 3. Its amazing I finished as high as I did, over half the guys I played with could outdrive me, and they all had been playing for several years longer than me.
And Ron, thanks for the pep talk. I want to send a kid to camp! Can we please put the following on my sponsor card ...
slowRoll "Crushing KidMills' dreams since 2009"
Thanks :-)
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Post by kidmills on Apr 8, 2009 13:21:54 GMT -5
well well well my friend dreams don't always come true,and this one won't
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Post by Ron Pittman on Apr 8, 2009 20:07:31 GMT -5
Slow, You got the sign. But, you can't touch the Kid. He will be hiding out in one of our famous age protected divisions.
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Post by slowroll on Apr 9, 2009 7:37:55 GMT -5
Darn that old guy duckin me :-)
Looking forward to seeing you all out there.
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Post by Ron Pittman on Apr 16, 2009 8:26:23 GMT -5
Need a bit of help.
We are pullng every string we can to get some nice media coverage for our tournament on the 25th. TV coverage during our lunch break and Mini-Scramble would be just great.
Checking to see if anyone on this forum has a contact. Don't hesitate, you have the green light to put something in motion.
Below are some notes I made. Someone better at wordsmithery is welcome to improve it.
Thanks,
Press Release Info
Event: 2nd Annual Crockett Charity Classic Disc Golf Tournament
When: Saturday, April 25th, 2009
Where: Crockett Park, Brentwood, TN (at Volunteer Parkway & Crockett Rd)
· Disc Golf, sometimes called Frisbee Golf, is played with flying discs. Players throw from a tee area to a disc golf target (called a “Pole Hole”) counting their strokes much like traditional golf. · Over 90 players and volunteers are expected to participate in this one-day event. This event is sanctioned by the Professional Disc Golf Association (PDGA) is a stop on the Tennessee Disc Golf Tour Series. Players are expected to pre-register at pdga.com. · Hosted by the Williamson County Disc Golf Club, a local group of volunteers who partner with area cities in the design, installation, and maintenance of area public courses. · Sponsored by Williamson County Parks and Recreation (providing the use of the Crockett Indoor Arena for Tournament Headquarters) and by Subway of Cool Springs (providing lunch for the players and guests from DSAMT)
Highlights
· Fundraiser Event for Down Syndrome Association of Middle Tennessee (DSAMT). Over $1,200 was raised last year through sponsors and player donations. Donations will be used to sponsor students to attend summer camp. · Our guests from DSAMT will join the players for lunch and then play in a Mini-Scramble Tournament during the lunch break.
Contact: Tournament Director, Ron Pittman CrockettDiscGolf at charter.net Three seven seven -two three three seven
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Post by daveo on Apr 16, 2009 12:57:25 GMT -5
Howdy.
I registered yesterday for the Charity Classic, and am looking forward to this event. my wife grew up in Nashville, and went to Brentwood Acadamy, so when I saw this tourney, I thought, "woohoo, I can kill two birds with one stone. We can visit her fam, and I can get a tourney in." I registered in REC. I'm hoping to see the update on the PDGA site soon. I'm going to see if my brother will come up from Huntsville to play also. Good luck with the tourney.
as I was reading some of your board, it seems that you are a fairly new club. I come from a fairly new club also. If You need to borrow anything, just let me know. 8-)We have a score point board that I could bring with me for the tourney, and I could probably get the measuring wheel if you need that too. I'll also be bringing my A game, so hopefully this 852 rated player will finish on the top card ;)of REC.
Peace,
Dave-O If you need to borrow anything...call....(309) 838-fourty-four - Eighty-eight.
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Post by Ron Pittman on Apr 16, 2009 22:57:01 GMT -5
David, Welcome. We got your pre-reg. Thanks. Glad you found us.
Have you played Crockett before? We will move targets this weekend to their tourney resting place. Sorta'. Still working on plans on #12. Rec plays from the red tees. (Expect a par 55 set up for reds)
I predict rec winner will be <108. Since I'm not real sure about the schools in Ill --- you may be confused about the little symbol in front of 108. Ask your wife. Them there BA grady-ets is smart.
I'll call you sometime Friday. Looking forward to meeting you.
Ron Pittman
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Post by scotch on Apr 17, 2009 0:03:18 GMT -5
About the TV coverage thing. It would probably also suffice to have someone capture it on video (preferably HD) and then submit it to news stations or other outlets. I can edit, add titles and music if needed on my computer. Maybe someone knows a student who needs an artsy fartsy school project.
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Post by daveo on Apr 19, 2009 7:19:12 GMT -5
I've never played Crockett, so two 54's will be tough. If I can keep my mental focus up for all 30 of 36, I "should" be real close to 108. I rarely keep my focus up for that many holes. maybe 25 of 36....We'll see.
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